Thursday, May 12, 2005
Where do we get values/morals?
If we don't have a religion to rely on, where does a society get its morals and values?
Are morals and values an innate quality? Could they just be handed down from generation to generation?
My opinion is that religion is man's attempt to write the laws that he aspires to and he attaches it to the higher authority of God to help persuade the masses to adhere to its tenets.
But, if I am to promote and live a religion free life and if it became the norm in a society, would this cause some moral decay?
We have religion now in the U.S., although a large proportion of people don't seem to really follow any particular religion very closely - I base this on the observation of the world from my small corner and the media, the way people interact, the way they dress, the way they communicate and just a general sense that we are much freer in our forms of expression.
It seems like today we have little basis for morality or values. Even though the politicians on the right seem to have a boiled moral values down to two core things: gay marriage and abortion, the reality is that moral values are much broader.
While I don't believe in the bible nor in the god of the bible - or in revealed religion, that doesn't mean I turn my back on some basic principles of decency and values. But, if you profess your Atheism or agnosticism, many people figure you are some hedonistic person who will lie, cheat, steal, covet they neighbors wife and/or property - you get the picture.
Why can't there be morally conscious individuals who don't believe in all the stuff of religion and the bible? The answer is there can be. But, what does one use as a guide if he/she abandons the bible? There is plenty of violence and vengeance in the bible - it really isn't a shining example of values - whole cities - men, women & children destroyed because of the actions of a few because god was pissed off at them? That isn't humane. But, we silly humans hang onto the parts of the bible that say what we want to promote today.
Is there anything wrong with using the bible as a resource for what is good in it? No. That is unless you are an adherent to the faith - then that isn't the prescribed way to use the bible. But, there in lies the problem - what is the correct way to "use" the bible - there are hundreds of sects of the christian faith - and they all have their own way of interpreting the bible and applying its often contradictory rules. Some look at it literally - some look at it metaphorically, but many think that it gives them license to tell others how to live.
How to live is a critical thing. Those in the U.S. and many other parts of the world live in harmony generally. Is religion and dogma/doctrine necessary for us to all get along? Absolutely not. But you would think that by our decadence and debauchery that we are all heading straight for that place the bible calls hell. Or maybe not. If a man or woman chooses to live a life of promiscuity, what harm are they really doing to anyone? My personal belief is that living like that is a really empty way to live - but going through that for a while in your life - is it really a sin? According the the bible it is. But, really, is it? It seems wrong to me not because of the bible teaching I have had - which is none, nada, zero. It is because what society and my mom instilled in me. It isn't okay to sleep around. If you do, you are a whore or sleaze. That is if you are a woman. If a man does this, he is often regarded as a stud or really cool.
If young people want to behave as MTV depicts early 20 somethings lives, is there really anything wrong with it? It isn't right for me, but is it really wrong? But, herein lies the whole issue. Society as a whole looks down on this behavior and says it is wrong. That comes partly from religion, and partly from just being of a certain generation. Society writes rules about social norms and the youth always seems to stretch the rules - every generation views the younger generation as wilder and riskier than their own generation. The 60's generation of 20 somethings seem to forge a stronger separation from its preceding generation. Now, the 70's, 80's generation are the adults of the 20 something kids and it seems like it has further degraded. So this becomes the norm of the parents of the 2020's and it further relaxes.
Is this a cyclical thing? Will the pendulum swing back hard one of these days where people rise up and don't accept that anything goes? Will we return to the in the closet view of homosexuals and never talking about our personal strife with people outside the family for fear of shame? I don't think so. The proverbial genie is out of the bottle.
What could change the psyche (sp?) of the U.S. is chaos. I mean chaos on a grand scale. If a terrorist were to accomplish a horrific act that killed many thousands or hundreds of thousands of people - I think that could spur a government slingshot reaction that could send us into marshall law or bring about a totally different world for us - especially if our comfy surroundings and belongings were confiscated or lost. If we didn't have the comforts we enjoy, that would be a catalyst of a drastic change in the behavior of our youth.
We are a lazy society now. The fruits of the labors of our forefathers, the generation not so gone by, has made it possible for the youth to have nothing really to do or to be involved in busy schedules - but it isn't any longer about survival for the non-immigrant population of this country. I am not saying this is bad necessarily, but I think it leads to an attitude of entitlement, greed and such. To not have to earn something to have it doesn't teach anything. That is what is so damaging about our current reckless consumer debt. Even if there is never a catastrophic credit meltdown in this country, the fact that we never have to earn money first to buy things now, fuels the "something for nothing" attitude, the lack of gratitude for the things we have. If you work your butt off to save $2,000 to buy that fancy computer with cash, as opposed to charging it and then struggling one month at a time to pay for it and then piling on the big screen tv, the new camcorder, the new Lexus, whatever it is you fancy - it feels different when you don't earn it first. You are then beholden to the big credit card companies or finance companies.
The way we do business on credit now is a moral values issue. We no longer value the dollar. We look for the lowest price and support corporate welfare by supporting Wal Mart, but then we charge , charge charge, so that we pay a lot more for everything in the end. Who gets rich - it's the investors, the credit card company executives (don't think the guy answering the phone at Chase Manhattan is getting some huge salary!). W
So, back to the original idea of this post: Where do we get our values and morals? Society and the media are not sources of guidance - not to say the media should be. But, the basics are just good principles to live by:
1. Pay cash for everything you buy.
2. Love thy neighbor.
3. Don't cheat, steal or lie.
4. Don't gossip.
5. Don't go after your neighbor's wife or husband.
6. Stand in line in place - don't cut in.
7. Go feed the hungry.
8. Give to charity.
9. Do without that latest greatest gadget (oops, that will harm the economy - better scratch that)
10. Tell your kids you love them.
11. Tell your spouse you love them.
12. Don't kill. (That includes the State.)
13. Eat your vegetables.
14. Eat your fruits too.
The list goes on and on. We can have basic rules without religion. Religion has had the corner on morals and values for years - it is time it is just accepted as societal thing that can be independent of religion. Trust me, you don't need religion to be a good, kind person. And if you are into religion and you do good for your neighbors and your community, then great. Nothing wrong with good people in good organizations trying to help the needy and to provide companionship and comaraderie to people.
Enough rambling for now. It is time for bed.
TO7B
now here or no where 8:53 PM | (0) comments |
Are morals and values an innate quality? Could they just be handed down from generation to generation?
My opinion is that religion is man's attempt to write the laws that he aspires to and he attaches it to the higher authority of God to help persuade the masses to adhere to its tenets.
But, if I am to promote and live a religion free life and if it became the norm in a society, would this cause some moral decay?
We have religion now in the U.S., although a large proportion of people don't seem to really follow any particular religion very closely - I base this on the observation of the world from my small corner and the media, the way people interact, the way they dress, the way they communicate and just a general sense that we are much freer in our forms of expression.
It seems like today we have little basis for morality or values. Even though the politicians on the right seem to have a boiled moral values down to two core things: gay marriage and abortion, the reality is that moral values are much broader.
While I don't believe in the bible nor in the god of the bible - or in revealed religion, that doesn't mean I turn my back on some basic principles of decency and values. But, if you profess your Atheism or agnosticism, many people figure you are some hedonistic person who will lie, cheat, steal, covet they neighbors wife and/or property - you get the picture.
Why can't there be morally conscious individuals who don't believe in all the stuff of religion and the bible? The answer is there can be. But, what does one use as a guide if he/she abandons the bible? There is plenty of violence and vengeance in the bible - it really isn't a shining example of values - whole cities - men, women & children destroyed because of the actions of a few because god was pissed off at them? That isn't humane. But, we silly humans hang onto the parts of the bible that say what we want to promote today.
Is there anything wrong with using the bible as a resource for what is good in it? No. That is unless you are an adherent to the faith - then that isn't the prescribed way to use the bible. But, there in lies the problem - what is the correct way to "use" the bible - there are hundreds of sects of the christian faith - and they all have their own way of interpreting the bible and applying its often contradictory rules. Some look at it literally - some look at it metaphorically, but many think that it gives them license to tell others how to live.
How to live is a critical thing. Those in the U.S. and many other parts of the world live in harmony generally. Is religion and dogma/doctrine necessary for us to all get along? Absolutely not. But you would think that by our decadence and debauchery that we are all heading straight for that place the bible calls hell. Or maybe not. If a man or woman chooses to live a life of promiscuity, what harm are they really doing to anyone? My personal belief is that living like that is a really empty way to live - but going through that for a while in your life - is it really a sin? According the the bible it is. But, really, is it? It seems wrong to me not because of the bible teaching I have had - which is none, nada, zero. It is because what society and my mom instilled in me. It isn't okay to sleep around. If you do, you are a whore or sleaze. That is if you are a woman. If a man does this, he is often regarded as a stud or really cool.
If young people want to behave as MTV depicts early 20 somethings lives, is there really anything wrong with it? It isn't right for me, but is it really wrong? But, herein lies the whole issue. Society as a whole looks down on this behavior and says it is wrong. That comes partly from religion, and partly from just being of a certain generation. Society writes rules about social norms and the youth always seems to stretch the rules - every generation views the younger generation as wilder and riskier than their own generation. The 60's generation of 20 somethings seem to forge a stronger separation from its preceding generation. Now, the 70's, 80's generation are the adults of the 20 something kids and it seems like it has further degraded. So this becomes the norm of the parents of the 2020's and it further relaxes.
Is this a cyclical thing? Will the pendulum swing back hard one of these days where people rise up and don't accept that anything goes? Will we return to the in the closet view of homosexuals and never talking about our personal strife with people outside the family for fear of shame? I don't think so. The proverbial genie is out of the bottle.
What could change the psyche (sp?) of the U.S. is chaos. I mean chaos on a grand scale. If a terrorist were to accomplish a horrific act that killed many thousands or hundreds of thousands of people - I think that could spur a government slingshot reaction that could send us into marshall law or bring about a totally different world for us - especially if our comfy surroundings and belongings were confiscated or lost. If we didn't have the comforts we enjoy, that would be a catalyst of a drastic change in the behavior of our youth.
We are a lazy society now. The fruits of the labors of our forefathers, the generation not so gone by, has made it possible for the youth to have nothing really to do or to be involved in busy schedules - but it isn't any longer about survival for the non-immigrant population of this country. I am not saying this is bad necessarily, but I think it leads to an attitude of entitlement, greed and such. To not have to earn something to have it doesn't teach anything. That is what is so damaging about our current reckless consumer debt. Even if there is never a catastrophic credit meltdown in this country, the fact that we never have to earn money first to buy things now, fuels the "something for nothing" attitude, the lack of gratitude for the things we have. If you work your butt off to save $2,000 to buy that fancy computer with cash, as opposed to charging it and then struggling one month at a time to pay for it and then piling on the big screen tv, the new camcorder, the new Lexus, whatever it is you fancy - it feels different when you don't earn it first. You are then beholden to the big credit card companies or finance companies.
The way we do business on credit now is a moral values issue. We no longer value the dollar. We look for the lowest price and support corporate welfare by supporting Wal Mart, but then we charge , charge charge, so that we pay a lot more for everything in the end. Who gets rich - it's the investors, the credit card company executives (don't think the guy answering the phone at Chase Manhattan is getting some huge salary!). W
So, back to the original idea of this post: Where do we get our values and morals? Society and the media are not sources of guidance - not to say the media should be. But, the basics are just good principles to live by:
1. Pay cash for everything you buy.
2. Love thy neighbor.
3. Don't cheat, steal or lie.
4. Don't gossip.
5. Don't go after your neighbor's wife or husband.
6. Stand in line in place - don't cut in.
7. Go feed the hungry.
8. Give to charity.
9. Do without that latest greatest gadget (oops, that will harm the economy - better scratch that)
10. Tell your kids you love them.
11. Tell your spouse you love them.
12. Don't kill. (That includes the State.)
13. Eat your vegetables.
14. Eat your fruits too.
The list goes on and on. We can have basic rules without religion. Religion has had the corner on morals and values for years - it is time it is just accepted as societal thing that can be independent of religion. Trust me, you don't need religion to be a good, kind person. And if you are into religion and you do good for your neighbors and your community, then great. Nothing wrong with good people in good organizations trying to help the needy and to provide companionship and comaraderie to people.
Enough rambling for now. It is time for bed.
TO7B
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